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Armour use - wearing a helm?
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TimT Offline
#41 Posted : 01 June 2011 22:40:27

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i treat larp as a sport in the combat situations as it relies upon the same skills even 3/4 speed its also a contact sport i don't aim for the head but if your a combatant then expect the head hits.....so if they do happen at least your prepared.
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Rich Whitaker Offline
#42 Posted : 02 June 2011 16:55:33

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Chidgey wrote:
Quote:
I seem to remember reading YEARS ago in LT rules that you could wear a helmet and get armour bonus, without requiring necessary armour use skill.
does it currently exist in the rules

No. You may however, wear a helmet for ooc safety reasons without any skill but it will not provide additional hits. Helmets will not interfear with casting providing you are using them for purely OOC safety and not to gain hits or any other IC advantage.


The published rules do not entirely support that position, and I am unaware of any official rules amendment affecting this issue.

It is correct that anyone may wear armour that they do not have the appropriate CS for, but will not gain any IC benefit from doing so.
However, they explicitly do suffer the restrictions on spellcasting. See page 48:

Quote:
Armour worn as costume, without the appropriate skill, offers no protection to your character but still restricts casting spells as normal.
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Helen Offline
#43 Posted : 02 June 2011 22:36:35

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Rich, there was a bit in the Ref Guidelines (before they were deemed out of date at moot 1 this year) that said something along the lines of 'don't bother correcting it if it's not really a problem'.

The two examples it gave were people wearing helmets for entirely OOC safety reasons while casting without the necessary OS, and people sparring without calling no damage.

Personally I would prefer to continue to ref it this way and I really don't view someone wanting to wear a helmet for their own safety as issue as long as they don't take extra hits from it. I agree that this isn't what the rules say, however there is no real IC advantage to wearing a helmet if you don't have the CS to use it.
Steve Lewis Offline
#44 Posted : 02 June 2011 23:16:07

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As Rich Whitaker has said...
Rich Whitaker wrote:
See page 48:

Quote:
Armour worn as costume, without the appropriate skill, offers no protection to your character but still restricts casting spells as normal.


In version 2 of the rules (page 23), we used to allow head armour to be worn without any necessary skills, granting no protection, which did not interfere with casting. However, we made a conscious decision when writing version 3 to simplify the reffing of such situations by saying that the wearing of armour physreps restricts casting, irrespective of whether those physreps are providing any protection
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Rich Whitaker Offline
#45 Posted : 02 June 2011 23:33:49

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Just to be clear where the lines are here (noting that these apply in general, not just to this specific topic):

If a post claims, or appears to claim, something incorrect about the rules then a moderator will (if we spot it) post a correction.
If a post advises, or appears to advise, breaking the rules as written then a moderator will remove it.
If a post from a ref or marshal states, or appears to state, that they will turn a blind eye to breaking of the rules as written then a moderator will remove it.
Posts discussing changes to the rules that you'd like to see are generally fine, so long as they remain civil and don't cross the above lines.

I hope that isn't going to spoil anyone's fun.
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Oisin Offline
#46 Posted : 03 June 2011 22:25:06

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An IC advantage is gained from wearing a helmet you do not have the skills for: you will get blasted in the head less often. Monsters (and, to a lesser extent, player characters) with spellcasting 2 will regularly target bare-headed characters as they are likely to have few hits on their unprotected noggin. I know I have done it on a regular basis.
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crispin Offline
#47 Posted : 24 July 2011 15:02:38

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a hat... tricorn style leather hat... dont have to count as armour but takes a mighty whump from most things! also the edges stick out over your eyes usually and this prevents sword tips etc ever reaching ya eyes! plus in the rain and sun you get a good degree of protection! :O) i loves my hat!
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slimy_te_t_cles Offline
#48 Posted : 23 October 2012 17:43:50

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Head shot's are just unpleasant to receive, even well pulled ones, especially if they suddenly restrict your vision. They are made even more dangerous by the fact that people move their head laterally to dodge, or quickly forward and down to go in for an attack.

As a quick tip from a reenactor, something we learn very quickly through verbal and physical teaching is to do with appropriate and safe head movement in combat; if you wish to minimise the chances of receiving a bad headshot and make sure that you are in no way responsible for any that do happen then:

Do not lower your head, either by looking downwards (with attending forward torso leaning) or moving vertically downwards in combat:

Moving your head vertically down causes chest shots to become face shots, and lungy chest shots to become face stabs.
Leaning forward and down causes you to be less aware of the situation around you and makes sure that any torso hits have a good chance of hitting your face as they are brought back from a strike. It also causes you to become off balance and imperils anyone in front of you; should you receive a blow to the back or the head, it is more likely you could topple onto the person in front.

Moving your head sideways causes downwards attacks to be redirected into the side of your head. The lungy slash that is so predominate at LT contains a stabbing and a tapping motion; if you move sideways, you can interfere with the so-called "safe" execution of this type of blow and ensure it becomes a stab.

Moving your head backwards is not so bad; it can turn a lungy slash into a stab, but it also has the benefit of taking all the force out of said stab. Tilting your head upwards as you do this is a big no-no; downwards shots end up hitting the face and, if you suddenly tilt your head involuntarily back up (for example when hit in the nose), you end up headbutting the end of a weapon.

A secondary cause of injury can be the result of a shot to the head; a headshot whilst the victim is attacking is likely to cause a flinch-like response and result in them not being able to pull their blow particularly well. On a couple of occasions I've had a blow coming toward my head that caused me to flinch from it (sometimes dodging it, sometimes not) and ruin my attempt to properly pull a strike I was attempting at the time.

Since light armour does not restrict casting, anyone who wishes to wear head protection can either make themselves a turban arrangement, wear an arming cap, or don a wide, stiff-brimmed hat (as crispin pointed out) to protect themselves from head blows.

Which weapon types do people think are responsible for most of the unsafe head blows? I have my suspicions but would like to see how overwhelming the opinion is.


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crispin on 25/10/2012
Rich Whitaker Offline
#49 Posted : 24 October 2012 00:22:57

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slimy_te_t_cles wrote:
Which weapon types do people think are responsible for most of the unsafe head blows? I have my suspicions but would like to see how overwhelming the opinion is.


I suspect I can guess what your suspicions are, but I should point out that the plural of anecdote is not data.

Note that the LT does have actual data for this sort of thing - in the form of the first aid records, and those are reviewed at the end of every event. There is currently no evidence in those records of any problem with a particular weapon type - so either there really is no such problem occurring, or for some reason people are failing to report their injuries to first aid.
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slimy_te_t_cles Offline
#50 Posted : 24 October 2012 12:51:28

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Rich Whitaker wrote:
the plural of anecdote is not data.


I love you for this sentence!

Rich Whitaker wrote:
There is currently no evidence in those records of any problem with a particular weapon type - so either there really is no such problem occurring, or for some reason people are failing to report their injuries to first aid.


That's interesting to know - I bet the first aid records have helped inform some of the rule changes in the past.
Do they already exist anywhere online?



crispin Offline
#51 Posted : 25 October 2012 05:05:59

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From a purely medical point of view...

A larp weapon has LESS chance of causing injury than either a bowling ball / game of lazer quest or even a tennis match... The most painful injuries for a LARP weapon to inflict seem to be pod shots & full face wacks! With luck folks wielding their larp safe weapons are striking in 'swinging' blows... NOT stabs... So so long as you keep your head up you will usually take one on the ear or top of the noggin at worst!!!

Making armour for the head is fun by the way!!! Look for 'bump caps' on line & in shops.... often simply a peak baseball cap... or bump cap insert... AMAZING little bits of kit like a helmet... Plastic & foam... A decent strike just staggers you... Very protective!!! (like wearing a hard hat!) I have been sewing the liners into cloth to make protective hats / headwear!!! (a female friend is making a wedding gown / veil one!)

Last thoughts though... Even a fairly heavy whack on the head isnt really that great a risk... However consider the following...

a) larp weapons are less soft & spongy in the cold! so avoid fights in winter / night time is u arent keen!

b) if gettin hit on the head REALLY bothers you, & for some I imagine it can be quite of-putting... Consider
surrendering!!! If your about to get attacked and think your up to your neck in it... then surrender / accept character wounds... make it clear you will accept hits! (hands up briefly... ok mate, K.O, i'm finished!!!)

c) Finally, if the idea of head injury is very worrying, consider being 'Non-combatant'... Theres a LOT more roleplay to larp than just fighting!!!

Worst ive taken was a falling platemail tower... 6ft odd of armoured shadow backhanding me in the lips as he fell over. It shook my world i can tell you!!! I may have even died, but i got better! :P
Crispin 'many-named'
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Yal Offline
#52 Posted : 28 November 2012 13:21:52

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Some "Arrow magnets" wear a cricket box, just in case
Some Shield wall veterans wear steel toe capped boots, Just in case.

One old larper (sadly quit for health reasons and not head shots ;o)) for a while had a huge floppy hat (visually no AV) which had an ice hockey helm underneath. (very well designed you wouldn't have known without smacking the hat around a bit).

So to all appearances his head was unarmored, and yet extremely well protected...

Not sure if this would be permissible in the LT, someone with more authority than I would need to clarify that.. but personally it's something I would like to see permitted, especially with the number of people on the field for whom a knock on the head might cause additional unrelated medical issues..
Operor non adepto cattus iratus , vos mos non amo him ut sit iratus.
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