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Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#21 Posted : 15 December 2012 00:15:11

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planegate wrote:
Isn't this all just spirit of the rules? its obvious what it actually means, if you want more info there is advanced patternscan.


Trouble is, it's not. Only people who are experienced in play, and in particular are experienced in playing a Healer, know exactly what it means. At the moment, the rules are really unclear ("Damage Effects" is an awful phrase), and if you were a new player reading the rules on this ability you would most likely get it wrong. As I mentioned before, I've had very experienced players who've played controllable characters for years ask me if a Healer discern picks one up, and why not: "It says detect pattern effects: control's a pattern effect!"

I'm not advocating that what it does in play be changed, necessarily, but we really need a clearer ruling on what exactly it finds and doesn't find, even if only so that we can point to it when asked "why not X?".

Also, currently Advanced Pattern Scan only gives whether Alien or Aberrant, pattern type, and whether possessed, plus whatever info any ref on the scene might want to give. I think having it pick up all pattern effects would actually be a really good change.
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planegate Offline
#22 Posted : 15 December 2012 00:18:11

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I am not disagreeing that its badly worded, and it should be changed in v4 but for now its intent is there and people should be helped to know what it does rather than working out what it theoretical meaan you could know.
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Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#23 Posted : 15 December 2012 00:31:58

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planegate wrote:
I am not disagreeing that its badly worded, and it should be changed in v4 but for now its intent is there and people should be helped to know what it does rather than working out what it theoretical meaan you could know.


Agreed. I just think an errata/clarification would be nice if/when time permits.
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planegate on 15/12/2012
Chidgey Offline
#24 Posted : 18 December 2012 18:48:43

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According to the rulebook "Detect Wound, Pattern Effect, Poison or Disease" detects any Damage Effects or Poison affecting the target, and how many body hits the character has left on each location (Rulebook page 12).

Taking the definition of damage effect (Rulebook page 15) and filtering out instantaneous things and adding in poison give us: Any Spell Effect, Decay, Disease, Fatal, Paralysis, and Poison. (Or if you prefer most things apart from Beguile, Petrify*, Lore Sheets, Lammies, Rites and Rituals).

*Petrify may or may not be a damage effect as it is listed as one on the table on page 15 but as an Other Effect instead of a Damage Effect on page 17. Normally in such cases the entry takes precedent over the table but no errata has ever been given on this.
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Sir Ophiuchus on 18/12/2012
Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#25 Posted : 18 December 2012 23:13:25

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Cool, seems it actually does pick up everything. How official is this, in terms of referencing it?
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Rich Whitaker Offline
#26 Posted : 19 December 2012 10:57:18

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*** This is the official bit: ***

The posts so far are all expressions of personal opinion.

Prior to this post no-one who has posted in this thread is authorised to make any kind of official statement in this forum.

Any comments from a referee or marshal are, at best, an indication of how they might rule if called upon to do so in a given situation.

I would like to take the opportunity to remind everyone that:
Quote:
Any interpretation or ruling given by a Marshal, Referee, Sanctioning Officer or Senior Referee will be valid for that occasion only. Permanent rule changes or clarifications can only be made in a valid LT publication


This is not a valid LT publication

*** End of official bit ***

*** Start of personal opinion: ***

I am far from entirely convinced by this interpretation of the rules, and would caution against relying on it until its validity has been officially confirmed

*** End of personal opinion ***
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Sir Ophiuchus on 19/12/2012, Yal on 10/01/2013
DM Offline
#27 Posted : 31 January 2013 22:16:30

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Are we right to assume thet RUNE 2013 is now "published" and that the Discern Wounds rule change is now in effect?
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Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#28 Posted : 01 February 2013 01:03:47

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Also, is it intentional that Paralysis is not on the list of effects a healer can find?
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Antychap Offline
#29 Posted : 01 February 2013 10:25:41

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This is an official post.

DM wrote:
Are we right to assume thet RUNE 2013 is now "published" and that the Discern Wounds rule change is now in effect?

Yes.

Sir Ophiuchus wrote:
Also, is it intentional that Paralysis is not on the list of effects a healer can find?

Yes.

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Sir Ophiuchus on 01/02/2013
Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#30 Posted : 01 February 2013 11:04:18

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Okay, I'll presume that was an official post. Thank you.
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Rich Whitaker Offline
#31 Posted : 01 February 2013 11:30:03

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Sir Ophiuchus wrote:
Okay, I'll presume that was an official post. Thank you.


It was (and is)
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Sir Ophiuchus on 01/02/2013
kirstar Offline
#32 Posted : 01 February 2013 11:44:34

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Like the changes

The best bit is about wounds
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planegate Offline
#33 Posted : 01 February 2013 17:46:10

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While this isnt my query, some people have brought it up and thusly before it hits the field it would be nice to be on the same page:

Does Discern Wounds still work on Unliving/Magical Patterns?

In the new wording it says "Alive/Dead" but the of the two references in the rulebook,the one is below and causing confusion. I assume Alive/Dead are not the same as the Pattern states Living/Unliving and Unliving count as being "alive" for Discern Wounds from a Channeler.

Quote:
LIVING PATTERN
The pattern of a being that is alive. Characters with Living Patterns need to breathe, eat, sleep, etc. All
characters have Living Patterns unless they have a Special Creature lammie stating otherwise.
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Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#34 Posted : 02 February 2013 01:11:05

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My current read of the rules is that Magical Patterns are still Living Patterns. Unliving are not Living Patterns but are still alive (ie "not dead"). Does this need a clarification? I don't think so.

I've mentioned earlier in this thread the problems that arise when newly unliving characters are told (incorrectly) to reply "dead" to healers...

I do see that the wording "The pattern of a being that is alive" is misleading. But surely since Unliving and Magical Patterns can't be played without loresheets the loresheet would say if anything differed pattern-wise, and how to respond if so?
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Antychap on 02/02/2013
DM Offline
#35 Posted : 02 February 2013 02:54:34

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Magical Patterns are specifically NOT Living Patterns.
Patterns must be one of Living, Unliving or Magical only.

They may additionally be Alien or Abberant.
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Antychap on 02/02/2013
Sir Ophiuchus Offline
#36 Posted : 02 February 2013 13:40:57

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DM wrote:
Magical Patterns are specifically NOT Living Patterns.
Patterns must be one of Living, Unliving or Magical only.

They may additionally be Alien or Abberant.


Doh, thank you!
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planegate Offline
#37 Posted : 02 February 2013 19:40:07

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Magical patterns arent living nor dead, discern still works on them all though.
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